The woman who launched Exeter's prime shopping centre at Princesshay says there is still a place in the UK High Street for big national brands despite a woeful year for Covid-hit names like Debenhams and Topshop.

The future of Philip Green's Arcadia Group, the business behind Topshop, Dorothy Perkins and Burton and troubled department store Debenhams remain in doubt with both currently trading in administration and a rescue deal on the cards for the latter by Frasers' boss Mike Ashley.

If both disappear, then that will be the loss of two flagship stores for Exeter and other city centres right across the UK.

Sally Henley was the centre manager of Princesshay when it launched in 2007.

She said: "When we opened Princesshay, it was 95% let and our two flagships were Debenhams and Topshop. I don't envy the current centre manager with the potential loss of both of those."

Sally Henley, Newton Abbot town centre development manager

Sally, who has been the town centre development manager in Newton Abbot for more than 10 years, said that a vibrant city or town centre relies on a mix of retail - from big national brands to small independents.

But retail is about survival of the fittest - and Debenhams has had its day while Topshop had become tainted by the 'toxicity' of the association with Philip Green, she said.

The retail tycoon has been a controversial figure, most recently in the demise of BHS, which he sold a £1.

When the business later went bust in 2016 leaving a £571m pensions deficit, questions were asked about how much cash Sir Philip had taken out of the company in the years before he sold it.

Mrs Henley said: "When I go into Topshop, I think of billionaire Philip Green on his yacht somewhere and quite frankly, that is off putting," she said.

Closing Down signs at Debenhams in Torquay

She added: "The writing was on the wall for Debenhams for a long time and it is a case that other people came along and did it better. It is a case of under-investment and it became the poor relation to John Lewis and even House of Fraser - why would people choose to shop there when it looked run down when they could go elsewhere?"

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But city centres and big towns rely on national brands and they have to be in the mix she said.

Mrs Henley began her career in retail working with George Davies - of George at Asda fame who built the Next empire from Kendall's, a small chain of rainwear shops.

She said: "He saw a gap in the market because at the time there were shops for young girls and at the other end of the market, there was high end names like Jaeger and Alexon but there was nothing in between and that's where Next came in. It was like his retail concept was beamed from space, the way the clothes were displayed, the quality, the price had not been seen before and that's why I really wanted to go and work for him."

But one of the biggest problems for big retailers is the costs of running a bricks and mortar enterprise compared to online operators.

Staffing costs, business rates, rents in prime sites are much higher for on-the-ground stores rather than out-of-town warehouses or fulfillment centres.

And tricky logistics like unloading bays plus car parking charges which are off-putting for customers tend to put off investment in the High Street.

Mrs Henley said: "Think about Boohoo - they are huge online and Topshop could potentially be a massive opportunity for them. But why would they invest in a real store when the costs are so high?'.

Mrs Henley has long been an advocate for business rate review along with many retail experts, including Queen of Shops Mary Portas.

She said it is not that shoppers are abandoning the High Street because they don't want it, it's because the environment is not supportive.

"Business rates that are linked to the value of the property rather than turnover of the business mean that those in prime sites are always going to be penalised.

"And there was a time when local authorities did not have to raise income from car parking - why does that have to happen now?

"If everyone who bought something online was charged a levy of £5 then they'd soon understand the difficulties faced by High Street retailers who are burdened with extra costs before they even open the doors."

And however vital, local independents are for small town centres, big cities and large towns cannot survive on them alone.

"Little shops need the big shops and big shops need the little ones, that's how it's always been. Small shops are extremely important but they never will replace the large shops in terms of driving footfall, certainly in city centres. We need both just as we need to accept online as part of the mix - it is a matter of balance."